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- North Pole Colorado: 1956
- My father and his sister in 1956 at "North Pole Colorado -- Home of Santa's Workshop," at the foot of Pikes Peak. Dad was 6 and ... Valley. Having also been born in 1956, comparing the Colorado Santa's Workshop to my own visits to Santa's Village is kind of fun! ... Posted by Samuel1940 - 07/06/2009 - 12:04am -
![My father and his sister in 1956 at "North Pole Colorado -- Home of Santa's Workshop," at the foot of Pikes Peak. Dad was 6 and his sister 8. View full size.
Don't like what's happening here.There’s been a definite and regrettable shift in this site. Virtually all the photos used to be fascinating windows into a time none of us knew. Some of them were great photos, some were banal, but with very few exceptions they were, as the motto says, "interesting." Now there are more and more pictures that seem to be posted here just because someone wants to say, "Look at me!"
Everyone has family photos; I have thousands, stretching back eighty years. My father was a talented amateur and local-newspaper photographer, and a high percentage of my family pictures are much better than the fuzzy family album excerpts that have appeared recently. My family albums are interesting to me, but I’m not so full of myself (as my mother would have said) that I think I should post them on a website of historic photographs.
And speaking of my mother, she used to say that my coloring book work was wonderful. However, I know now that applying a crayon to pictures someone else created does not: (a) make me an artist, or (b) produce anything that’s worth other people's time.
So Dave, I hope you'll turn the dreck filter back on. If there’s a shortage of good pictures to post, I certainly don’t mind if you post fewer pictures. Don't let this terrific site that you created be ruined.
[There is maybe some confusion here. This photo is in color because it was taken on color film. And it's certainly not "dreck." Color vacation photos are a summertime tradition on Shorpy. We've published dozens over the years. - Dave]
SuspendersYep, all us little shrimps wore suspenders back then. This is about 1953.
Bring on the dreck!The North Pole is a place I know well, having visited it several times a year when I was a kid. I like this photo, not much had changed between then and when I was a kid in the 80s. The pole had some kind of refrigeration gizmo built into it, so it was always covered with ice. Leaning on it was a nice break after playing around on a hot summer day.
I love EVERY photoI too am a follower for quite a while and while I do enjoy the "historical" photos the most, these snapshots into your family's life are very interesting as well.
I am just a little younger than your dad, but we didn't have a decent camera -- much less color film -- until well until the 1960s, so these provide a glimpse into what my life might have been like if I could remember back that far.
Your photos are so well-presented in all of their original (and occasional retouched) glory, that I have found myself feeling like I was a witness to history.
Keep 'em coming. It's your site and it's your choice. We just get to share.
[Thank you, SLP. Again let me note: These are not my photos. Check the "Submitted by" tag above each photo to see who posted it. In this case, Samuel1940. This is just one of almost 1,500 user-submitted photos in the Shorpy Member Gallery. - Dave]
Just Sayin I thought it was obvious that the crayon analogy referred to the colorized photos – e.g., the garish Fourth of July offering – that have been posted. Then again, I would have thought it was obvious that the blurry snapshots and colorized pictures fit in with the rest of the content about as well as a Spike Jones number fits in at the Philharmonic. Nothing wrong with a good Spike Jones number, but it doesn’t fit in everywhere.
And as for the other color vacation photos posted in the past: (a)they've generally been well composed and technically good for their day, and (b)they've generally contained something more interesting than Dad and Aunt Maggie standing in front of Santa's workshop.
In conclusion: It's your website, and while I'll defend your right to ruin it, I won't say it's not a shame.
[I can't help but think you might not be seeing something other people don't fail to appreciate. And that "garish" flag photo -- webmaster gift from God on a holiday weekend! Perfect Fourth of July page topper. - Dave]
Fire up the slide projectorThis pretty much distills the essence of the mid-1950s family road trip. Well done.
CriticsI feel compelled to add my 2 cents here. I spend a lot of time on Shorpy.com. As a matter of fact, over a two week period, I went through *every* page of photos so I could see them all, and now check in at least once a day to see what's new.
One of the features that I enjoy about Shorpy is the member photos. Not all of the member photos are 100 years old, but I find them interesting and entertaining -- especially if the poster adds some background to the shot. I appreciate that Dave allows members to upload their own photographs here. I think that's very generous of him.
As to this photograph in particular, I grew up in the Bay Area of California and we had our own Santa's Village in Scotts Valley. Having also been born in 1956, comparing the Colorado Santa's Workshop to my own visits to Santa's Village is kind of fun!
My advice to folks who don't like member photos is to just skip them. There's a whole lot more on this site to engage you. I guarantee it.
View of the PastTo me, Shorpy is a view into the past. The professional photos are usually well composed or at least have an interesting subject (even if the chicks in the figure-hugging swimsuits ain't all that hot). And the user-submitted photos are, for the most part, an incredible look into the lives of some humans in another part of the country. I'm all for that. I'm sure most of us would like to step into a time machine and go to some other time and place just to experience it firsthand. But flux capacitors are still prohibitively expensive, so that ain't happenin' any time soon. I'm all for more "family photos," color or B&W, just as long as they aren't colorized via computer. Hand-tinted, maybe, but none of the colorized examples that have been posted recently are worth diddly, except that fiddle.
It's a big websiteMore content is more content, and it's grand. I look at and occasionally comment on the pictures that interest me, and skip the ones that don't. It doesn't seem so terribly difficult.
Colorized photos? Great; the originals are still a click away. Family pictures? Wonderful; they bring back memories for some and are a "window" into an unknown time for the younger Shorpyites.
I suppose I don't understand why people who enjoy one sort of thing feel they have to put a stop to any different sort of thing -- which others might enjoy just as much. Nobody's taking anything away from anyone here, at least as far as I can see. Different POVs, I guess.
Too cute!This photo is absolutely adorable. Love the details. These kids look so happy and wholesome. It's historical from a textiles and style stand point as well. Love that crazy little shirt he's got on. The little girl probably became President of a university and the little fella has all kinds of possibility written across his face! They look so amiable that perhaps they didn't even torture each other in the back seat. Too cute. ~Love the guy with the fish too.
[Let's not overlook that lollipop. - Dave]
PeaceOutOkay; last one. I think folks have moved on, anyway. I really don’t think the problem is my insensitivity to some subtle magic that more perceptive individuals can appreciate. (That is, of course, one of our stock responses when someone criticizes a thing we like.) My reasons for writing are laid out pretty clearly in the earlier posts: The pictures I’ve complained about are not good, and I think they’re out of place here.
Of course some people are going to defend them. There are always people who rise in indignation when anyone dares to suggest that one picture or poem or pasta is better than another. Such elitist snobbery must be opposed! But come on now . . . “The little girl probably became President of a university and the little fella has all kinds of possibility written across his face! They look so amiable that perhaps they didn't even torture each other in the back seat. Too cute.” Honestly, is this the audience you’re aiming at? There are millions of people who love their unicorns on black velvet, too. Should you throw a few pictures of those on the site?
I’m baffled by all this. You’ve started two sites that I know of. (I started coming here from Plan59.) Both were much, much better than 99.99% of the sites on the Web. Now you’ve left one to wither on the vine, and you’re letting the other one be dragged down to the Cute Overload level. I hate it when people who can do good work don’t do it.
[Ever program a website on a holiday weekend? - Dave]
Re: PeaceOutCluelessness abounds!
Not a Joe I knowDave has the site set up so that if you see something that doesn't interest you, you can move right along to something that does. Dave, it's your site, and I defend your right to "ruin" it by letting people air their fractious views, but I wish you wouldn't: comments like these are beginning to grate and take the fun out of Shorpy. Didn't Mother also say that if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all? I don't see how denigrating user photos or user comments benefits anyone.
Speak for Yourself>> There’s been a definite and regrettable shift in this site. Virtually all the photos used to be fascinating windows into a time none of us knew.
And they still are. This photo was taken in 1956. I was born in 1968. Thus the photo was taken during a time I didn't know.
Insofar as I find the 1950s a fascinating era, this qualifies.
Sidewalk SuperintendentsPoor Dave. How is it that some people seem to think they can run your site better than you do? Did the cover price they paid to get into your saloon entitle them to complain so loudly about the floor show? There may be only a few whiners and gripers out of the thousands of mostly silent readers, yet the grumpiness seems pretty strange. But never mind. They remind me of the Yogi Berra quote: "Nobody goes to Coney Island any more. It's too crowded."
Not a Joe I'd like to know.>> There are always people who rise in indignation when anyone dares to suggest that one picture or poem or pasta is better than another. Such elitist snobbery must be opposed!"
You seem to be the epitome of what you claim to object to. You've stated your opinion, and it has been duly noted. Now you can do one of three things.
1. Leave and be done with it.
2. Stay and enjoy, but don't continue to belabor your point regarding the content.
3. Go and start your own web site, and post only that which you deem appropriate.
I enjoy whatever is posted here. Keep up the good work!
Straw men>> There are always people who rise in indignation when anyone dares to suggest that one picture or poem or pasta is better than another. Such elitist snobbery must be opposed!
As far as I have seen, no one has made this point in any of these discussions, and certainly not in this thread.
I haven't read all the comments on everything, of course. NotAJoe, can you point to any comment in support of these pictures of which you so disapprove in which anyone has said, or even implied, that "no picture is better than another"?
(Of course, if this is an attempt at reading the minds of those who differ with you, I can only say -- as one of those who is capable of skipping past pictures that are not of personal interest to me -- that it is not a very accurate try.)
Shorpy as Time Machine...For the life of me, I cannot fathom how anyone can complain about the content of this or any other website, when there is so much from which to choose on the Internet.
Speaking of Shorpy, this site offers wonderful glimpses into the past, part of which I did know, part of which I might have known, and part of which was before my time. Even when admiring others' photographs, I'm reminded of times, events and places in my own life that I would absolutely love to return to and relive.
I'm 45 years old, and just last month I laid my 59-year-old brother to rest, God keep him. I'd show him some of the content here (especially that which dealt with automobiles; our family has a history in auto refinishing) and even he was moved to reminisce. Now that he has become the most recent of my dwindling family to leave this mortal coil, I see Shorpy as more of a connection to the past, when times may have been a little more hardscrabble, but a lot of things were simpler.
Sorry for the ramble. To Dave and all the contributors here, I thank you sincerely. Keep up the good work.
The Way I Read It.It reads" "Always Something Interesting."
Not: Always Something Perfect.
On pins and needles...Can't wait for the debut of NotaJoe's website. I hope he allows comments!
[I wouldn't be surprised if both he and the nice person who posted this photo were halfway to Mexico by now. - Dave]
It's ALL goodThis is THE best site for vintage photographs that I have found on the Web, and believe me, I have searched for them. I enjoy each and every photo posted here. Some I don't dwell upon as long as others, but each one has its own merit.
No one has mentioned the fact on this particular thread that you are willing to post dissenting views, and that it's OK to have them. It's fine that NotaJoeYouKnow doesn't approve of certain things. You acknowledge his views and move on.
As many people have expressed: KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. This is a wonderful site which I treasure highly.
I love the family photosFamily snapshots help me position myself alongside folks of backgrounds alien to mine, sometimes in settings very different from those I know, and in many cases before I was born.
I've never visited a "Santa's Village" or "North Pole," but I see the joy that these children take in visiting one with their family, and that brings these people, so different from me, together with my family (as I am sure my children would sport similar grins in similar settings).
Samuel1940, Illegitimi non carborundum.
Keep 'em coming, Team Shorpy.
(ShorpyBlog, Member Gallery, Travel & Vacation)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/FH000018_.thumbnail.jpg "North Pole Colorado: 1956")
- Boulder Colorado 1916
- ... was born in 1916. This shot of the main street in Boulder Colorado shows my grandmother standing on the sidewalk, perching her hands on ... this wonderful photo!
Jackson D. Carson
Boulder, Colorado
(ShorpyBlog, Member Gallery) ... Posted by notycoon22 - 05/20/2007 - 9:52am -
- Colorado Choo-Choo: 1900
- Pikes Peak, Colorado, circa 1900. "Summit, cog wheel train, Manitou and Pike's Peak ... Posted by Dave - 08/03/2012 - 4:07pm -
- Colorado: c.1900
- Scanned from the original 4x5 inch glass negative. View full size.
Lifelike There are times when a monochrome photo looks more lifelike and real than anything a color photo could capture. This is one of them. What a great photo.
re: ... Posted by D_Chadwick - 09/20/2011 - 12:53am -
- Hunters in Colorado: Late 1800s
- ... An old family photo taken in the late 1800s in Boulder, Colorado. Unfortunately no one has been able to identify anyone in this posed ... Posted by s.w.a.c. - 02/07/2011 - 9:39am -
- Colorado Springs: 1910
- Colorado Springs circa 1910. "Exchange National Bank Building, Tejon Street." ... Posted by Dave - 09/05/2017 - 12:21pm -
![Colorado Springs circa 1910. "Exchange National Bank Building, Tejon Street." 5x7 inch dry plate glass negative by William Henry Jackson. View full size.
"What the---?"It looks like the fellows in the auto are aware of the distant cameraman
Walk this wayThis is about the earliest photo in which I've seen designated & marked crosswalks. And most, but not all, of the pedestrians are actually using them!
[I think that's due to their being the only part of the street that's not dirt or mud. -tterrace]
It's still standing!Hasn't burnt down yet! If you look down the cross street to the right, you will see the majestic Pike's Peak. In the background, on the far left of the photo, you can just make out Cheyenne Mountain, home of NORAD, or whatever they call it now.
(The Gallery, Streetcars, W.H. Jackson)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-4a27358a1.thumbnail.jpg "Colorado Springs: 1910")
- Colorado Caboose: 1940
- ... the Rio Grande Southern narrow gauge railway. Telluride, Colorado." Acetate negative by Russell Lee for the Farm Security ... Posted by Dave - 06/23/2019 - 1:52pm -
- Colorado Chaos
- Colfax Avenue in Aurora, Colorado, about 1971. We lived there briefly while my dad was serving in the ... Posted by billymaz - 12/19/2018 - 2:55pm -
- Feeding the vermin: Colorado 1956
- Pikes Peak area 1956. My 93 year old grandfather cannot remember what camera he used - knowing that it wasn't his box camera since his wife is obviously holding it in her hand. View full size.
(ShorpyBlog, Member Gallery) ... Posted by Samuel1940 - 07/19/2009 - 5:24pm -
- Arkansas Travelers: 1920
- ... 1920. Three gents in a dusty touring car with Arkansas and Colorado tags (and Yellowstone National Park windshield pass) are the stars of ... deliver daylight to the basement below.
Arkansas & Colorado tags As a keen observer, Dave notices every detail. As a foreigner, ... Posted by Dave - 06/03/2015 - 10:36am -
- The Drugstore: 1913
- ... came down and hit him on the back of the head.
Salida, Colorado? I was curious to find out where this was located. On another site, I found this picture was labeled as a gift from the Colorado Historical Society. There was a G. W. Armstrong who owned a large ... Posted by Dave - 07/30/2012 - 2:14pm -
![1913. No location given. "G.W. Armstrong drugstore." Seidlitz Powders only 25 cents. 8x10 glass negative, Detroit Publishing Company. View full size.
You get all wrapped up in the cigarsand completely neglect the righthand side, where Peter's, Red Rapt and Romance brands of chocolate, among others, are being offered along with Beech-Nut peppermints.
And back on the left: can one imagine anyone going to the trouble now of re-sharpening safety razor blades? Can one even imagine it then?
Those were the daysMy late uncle would have known what toilet cream was. He once told me he used toilet water but he stopped after the seat came down and hit him on the back of the head.
Salida, Colorado?I was curious to find out where this was located. On another site, I found this picture was labeled as a gift from the Colorado Historical Society. There was a G. W. Armstrong who owned a large drugstore in Salida, CO - though it looks like he sold it in 1910.
[Every one of the 25,000+ Detroit Publishing glass negatives in the Library of Congress archive is a gift from the Colorado Historical Society. This drugstore was most likely in Detroit or New York (or maybe Boston). - Dave]
Toilet CreamWhat is toilet cream? Preparation H?
Commode to JoyWow, so much to look at in this shot. This is going to waste several hours of my time this afternoon.
I see at the upper left that Gibson's Toilet Cream is only a quarter (although it may be an exorbitant 75 cents).
I'll bet it smelled unique in thereThis reminds me of a drug store I used to go in as a kid. They also sold photography equipment and some cosmetics. Really had a neat aroma about it. Hard to explain, but if there's any other old farts out there, they will remember what an old time drug store smelled like.
Chocolates!Scrolling around on my little laptop screen, I came to the stacks of wrapped packages, first, and wondered what was in them. When I scrolled a bit farther, I saw the answer. What I wouldn't give for a chance to taste those chocolates!
I wonder if the cup holders on the left were for sale, or were for holding coffee and tea in some kind of disposable cup. I love pictures like this!
[The holders are for soda fountain customers. - Dave]
Continental In Europe, once you get out of the big cities, you can still find drugstores that don't look unlike this one (you have to ask for things behind the counter and/or try to figure out what the HECK THAT IS behind the counter!) In the USA however, this kind of lovely, quaint drugstore is pretty much gone, sad but true.
What a treasure!My head almost exploded when I saw this! Fantastic snapshot full of history -- and 75 cent toilet cream!
Toilet creamGibson's Toilet Cream sounds interesting. What the heck is that for?
[For the complexion, a la toilet soap. - Dave]
Vinol, a Nutritive Tonic.Now we know what it is.
Two things I would hate to do:Take inventory of the place or be the sap who had to build those coffee displays on top.
I can see the poor guy with a handlebar mustache, garters on his sleeves, a green visor, and button down shoes trying to accomplish those tasks.
Noble TobaccoPrince Albert had his can; Peter the Great his box.
Mahogany & MarbleI'm always impressed by the incredible craftsmanship and the intent of permanence in the construction of these old stores. That paneling is fit for Rockefeller's study and the mosaic floor is a work of art. If a modern drug store was built with the same level of skill and materials today, we couldn't afford to shop there due to the overhead!
Gibsons Toilet CreamFor dry, chapped Porcelain.
I took one apartAs a young kid, my neighbor was a pharmacist. He bought out an old time drugstore in South Baltimore after the elderly gent passed away. His old store looked much like this one, although it hadn't been open in a year or more.
My neighbor gave several of us young fellows a little spending money one summer to help him take this old store apart. My druggist neighbor purchased any drug stocks and equipment, including soda fountain items.
We spent the better part of the day hauling things out to the truck. Some of the more valuable items had already been taken.
That old store on Cross Street must have looked like this in its heyday.
Pardon meBut do you have Peter the Great in a Box? well you better let him out!
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigarRuby Star Cigars
Look Like 15 cents - Smoke Like 10 cents
Our Price 7 cents - 4 for 25 cents
The last bit comes out to 6.25 cents each, but it still looks like 15 cents and smokes like 10 cents! And that was a lot of money, back then. It was expensive to be a cigar smoking waif, back in the day.
Western Union ClockThe clock over the doorway is a Western Union Self Winding pendulum clock. It used one of the old telephone batteries to re-wind itself after it had run down a certain amount. Western Union sent out a time pulse from the central office every hour which had been synchronized with U.S. Naval Observatory time at noontime every day. If the clock in a customers office was more than ten seconds off it would not reset automatically on the hour and a tech would have to go fix it. Every main W.U. office in metropolitan areas had a Master clock which was synched with Naval time. These master clocks set sub-master clocks in smaller towns and the sub-masters sent the time pulse to the customers premises.
Perhaps BostonA case could be made that the store may have been here. No G.W. Armstrong appears in various directories of druggists around the time of the shot, but the G.W. Armstrong Dining Room and News Company was a strong presence in the New England railroad scene. The company ran the restaurant and the newsstand at the Boston station at the time, and a druggist trade journal describes how the company opened, and later expanded, a drug store in the same complex.
From a 1908 ABC Pathfinder Railway Guide:
A note from the "Boston Briefs" section of the trade publication Journal of the N.A.R.D (National Association of Retail Druggists):
VertigoIf you have never experienced vertigo, now is your chance. Focus on the bottom of that floor. Now use your browser button to push that image quickly up to the ceiling. Whew! Now down. Now UP. Whew. Now down. Now UP. Whew. Now down. Now UP. Whew.
Did Last In Last Out (LILO) rule in this store, or who got stuck with the old stock. I'm thinking a parent sent in a kid to get a can of Prince Albert and the clerk went up the ladder and pulled out the FILO can for him. I'm thinking this because when I was 8 my aunt sent me to the grocery for a loaf a bread. The clerk gave me a day-old with a torn wrapper. My aunt and I were back in the store before the clerk could say "got rid o' that one, boss".
I want to be the bookkeeper for this place. I direct and you stock.
Great photo, Shorpy. Thanks.
Re: VertigoI did that trick and felt the sensation you described. I didn't get vertigo bad enough to keep me from finding a dime or quarter on the tile floor left of center about seven tiles up from the bottom. Love all drug store pictures, especially earlier than the 50's.
SpongesI like the three grades of sponges available in the lower cabinet right in the middle of the picture:
Velvet sponges
Bath sponges
Automobile sponges
Manistee, MichiganI have no idea where this was taken, but if you are ever in Manistee, Michigan, there is a historical society museum on Water Street that looks very much like this...but with side rooms and an amazing upstairs. The drugstore closed suddenly and the whole thing...including contents...was given to the museum. It is preserved much as it was. Bonus: The most interesting thing is a preserved (through taxidermy) double calf head, yes real, from a two-headed calf born nearby.
http://www.manisteemuseum.org/about_us
(The Gallery, DPC, Stores & Markets)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a25722a_0.thumbnail.jpg "The Drugstore: 1913")
- Fine Liquors: 1941
- ... 1941. "Main street of old mining town. Leadville, Colorado." Photo by Marion Post Wolcott for the Farm Security Administration. View full size.
Carlton Tunnel / Colorado 104 When I went to try to locate what intersection this was, I ... Posted by Dave - 07/01/2014 - 10:28am -
![September 1941. "Main street of old mining town. Leadville, Colorado." Photo by Marion Post Wolcott for the Farm Security Administration. View full size.
Carlton Tunnel / Colorado 104When I went to try to locate what intersection this was, I learned that the Carlton Tunnel collapsed in 1943 (two short years after this photo was taken), with the end result being the decommissioning of Colorado Route 104.
"SH 104 is an original 1920s highway, and went from SH 82 at Basalt, east via the Fryingpan River to Meredith, through the Carlton Tunnel (toll), to US 24 at Leadville. There was a tunnel collapse in 1943, and SH 104 was decommissioned by 1950."
http://www.mesalek.com/colo/r100-119.html
Not too much differentThe bar is now called the Manhattan Bar. The building has some different architectural detail, but I'm positive it's the same building. The town is still old, some refurbished, but really, not too much going on.
I took a photo of it last year.
https://flic.kr/p/gxY2hX
Yep !you are in the right town if you want a drink or a meal.
Yeast and WestI never would have guessed that Grain Belt Beer, at this time anyway, had a distribution network that went as far as Colorado. And west of Denver at that! I thought it was strictly an upper Midwest brew, like (Jacob) Schmidt or Gluek.
Other way around with me.For most of my drinking career first came the liquor then came the fine(s)
Probably not the Manhattan BarI think the original here was taken a block south of Gwendeanne's photo. Fine Liquors and Rooms are in the "Iron Building" on the SE corner of Harrison and 6th. The Kobos building across the street is now a parking lot (or was in 2009 when Google last drove by).
View Larger Map
Hydrant HatI've seen a lot of fire hydrants in my life, but never one with a device like the one on top here.
[Here's another, from 1905. Details here. - Dave]
Definitely not the Manhattan The Manhattan, Kobos and Fine Liquors can be seen here.
(The Gallery, M.P. Wolcott, Mining, Stores & Markets)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-8c31623u.thumbnail.jpg "Fine Liquors: 1941")
- Summertime Santa: 1956
- ... (6 years old) and his older sister in 1956 at "North Pole Colorado -- Home of Santa's Workshop" at the foot of Pike's Peak. Santa sure ... Boots Reminds me of another 1956 Santa.
North Pole Colorado What a wonderful picture! I was there just a few years later, in ... Posted by Samuel1940 - 09/20/2011 - 1:20pm -
- True West: 1888
- "Colorado, 1888." Sheep Mountain from Buena Vista. Photo by John C.H. Grabill. ... the geography of the photo with the geography around Colorado Springs. The Wikipedia article for Mr. Grabill says he was in Buena ... has his name on the business shown here.
Not the Colorado Springs I know I know Colorado Spring fairly well, and I don't ... Posted by Dave - 05/15/2019 - 11:59pm -
!["Colorado, 1888." Sheep Mountain from Buena Vista. Photo by John C.H. Grabill. View full size.
Buena VistaI could not reconcile the geography of the photo with the geography around Colorado Springs. The Wikipedia article for Mr. Grabill says he was in Buena Vista at this time. A quick look at the 3D mountains in Google Earth indicates this photo was taken in Buena Vista. This screenshot is looking west along Main Street, with the central Sheep Mountain and surrounding skyline being a match for the photo.
Buena VistaThis one was tricky, but I'm confident saying it's Buena Vista. For one thing, this same photo and John Grabill are both referenced on Buena Vista's Wikipedia page, and it's identified as Buena Vista at a handful of other sites as well. Also, the mountains match up with those to the west of Buena Vista (Sheep Mountain is the one in the middle).
Where it gets tricky is the building that looks like the old county courthouse, now the Heritage Museum. It's SO CLOSE to the courthouse, but there's a couple of subtle differences, other than the cupola of course. The cornice details are exactly the same, as are the window sizes, spacing, and stone lintels. However, there's some missing detail in the gable, there's no quoins at the corners of the building, and most critically, there's much less space between the heads of the 2nd floor windows and the cornice. So it's in fact not the old courthouse but a doppelganger.
So what is it? This aerial drawing shows the courthouse at the bottom right and a similar but less elaborate building at the top left on Gunnison Avenue. https://oldmapsofthe1800s.storenvy.com/products/16850028-buena-vista-col... I figure it's a school since there's now a School Street that intersects Gunnison there, but it's just a parking lot now for St. Rose of Lima Church.
So the creek would be Cottonwood Creek that runs through the middle of town. The railroad tracks would be in the foreground, and in fact the photographer may have been standing on top of a rail car to get the shot. That would likely put our subject buildings, which are at an angle to the buildings in the background, on Cottonwood Avenue near Cedar Street.
Wow! 1888?Mr. Grabill should have given up money changing and went into photography full time! What a photo.
[Money changing?? John Grabill was a photographer. That's his studio in the photo. - Dave]
I suppose it was the words "Mining Exchange" that threw me so far off.
Busy GuyWell, it's clear that John C.H. Grabill seems to have two "occupations." One is certainly photography out of one building and a "mining exchange" in an adjacent one. What one meant by mining exchange at that time is not clear, to me at least.
[Mining exchanges are something like a stock exchange for mining investors. Often they included an assay office. - Dave]
Chimney Stuffing?One must wonder why all the limbs and assort brush is stuffed in the top of the chimney. Keeping birds from nesting there?
[The limbs and brush are on the ground behind the chimney. - Dave]
One of the best!Shorpy never ceases to amaze. What a shot and as a kid, this would have been a playground from age 5. Should be made into a movie. Sidenote, just getting over emergency cancer surgery, am now cancer free, but am convalescing and it's photos like these that aid in being able to sleep with a smile. Thanks so much for your incredible passion and I also contribute gladly to your monthly Patreon.
[Thank you and bless you! - Dave]
Panning for Gold?Is that one of J.C.H. Grabill's future Mining Exchange customers panning for gold in the stream just to the right of the chimney?
Two hatsMaybe John Grabill had many interests and ways to make a living. I am not sure what a mining exchange does, but he clearly has his name on the business shown here.
Not the Colorado Springs I knowI know Colorado Spring fairly well, and I don't think that this is taken within the area we call Colorado Springs today. Hills like this are not seen until you travel well to the west out of town. Hopefully someone will be able to give us a location of this photo. Even if it proves me wrong. As usual. But one thing I'm absolutely correct about: this is a beautifully composed photo!
[The extreme foreshortening is an artifact of the long-focus lenses used in 19th-century view cameras. An effect employed by modern photographers in telephoto shots of sunsets and full moons. - Dave]
One of Mr Grabill’s customers... appears to be panning for gold in the nearby crick.
Out in the "Byoonies"This is not Colorado Springs. I believe it is Buena Vista Colorado (which the locals pronounce "byoona-VIS-ta" or "byunie" for short. The two story brick building in the back ground matches up with the Buena Vista Heritage Museum 506 Main street. I live in Colorado Springs and the Mountains didn't look right. I went through the 1888 Colorado Springs Business directory and couldn't find the businesses listed. I thought maybe it was "up the pass" in Manitou Springs, but that didn't "pan out" ...
[The Chaffee County courthouse (today's Heritage Museum) had its cupola since new, so that's not the building in the background (which also differs in details like the cornice). J.M. Graham and his El Paso Livery were in Colorado Springs, which is in El Paso County. - Dave]
Strange Looking MountainsWere the mountains drawn in with a pencil or do they look that way because of fog.
Sometimes old photos were touched up by an artist for various reasons.
[They look strange because the print I am working from is faded and discolored. What you're seeing is fibers in the paper. - Dave]
Obvious Comment.Some nice examples of period signage.
Peaceful & lovelyThis is such a beautiful picture, and it looks like it could be so many different media to me: a B & W photo, a pencil drawing, even the beginning shot of an animated movie. Some parts could even be skillful computer renderings. I was about to say that, stripped of human figures, it awaits a character entering into view to bring it to life, but do I spy a little fellow crouching by the creek with his back to us?
Happy Mother’s Day, fellow Shorpistas!
What's he doing?Can 't tell what the individual is doing in the river but given the location and the residual gold fever still gripping the nation, I wonder if he was trying his luck at panning? Or he could have just been washing his hands.
Free RainIt seems that it was legal in 1888 for a Colorado resident to collect water from his roof in a rain barrel. It was not long after that the law forbade the capturing of any rainwater. Fortunately for us now living in Colorado Springs, the law was amended in 2016 that would allow for a resident of a single-family home to have up to two 55 gallon rain barrels without being subject to a large fine.
Stunning photo... with so much beauty, both architecturally and naturally. Mr. Grabill may have had more than a few entrepreneurial irons in the fire, but it appears that his talent for framing a shot was his most valuable asset. Like leftyspade (to whom I wish a speedy recovery and all the best), a picture like this becalms and brings joy merely by being a timeless representation of so much that we recognize as fine.
GorgeousI've admired many hundreds of photographs in the eight or so years I've been following Shorpy daily, but this may well be one of the most beautiful ever. It has inspired me to re-read "A Lady's Life in the Rocky Mountains" by Isabella Bird -- a breathtaking look at Colorado in the 19th century.
It also brings back memories of visiting Colorado ghost towns when I lived there in the early 1970s.
Oh, for a time machine.
Here's a Bird's Eye viewof Colorado Springs in 1888. I'm going to speculate that the image was probably set somewhere in the vicinity of this red rectangle. If so there's probably a rail line hidden somewhere in the background.
https://vintagecitymaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Colorado-Springs-...
Apologies to Mr. CookeDon't know much about photography
Don't know much about geography
But I do know I love this view
What a wonderful world on Shorpy
(The Gallery, Frontier Life, John Grabill, Mining)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-02573u.thumbnail.jpg "True West: 1888")
- Beer Depot: 1941
- ... September 1941. "Old beer depot in mining town. Leadville, Colorado." Medium format acetate negative by Marion Post Wolcott for the Farm ... was not known for lite.
Possibly the Best Beer in Colorado I say that because among the great disappointments of my life was ... Posted by Dave - 10/31/2021 - 11:59am -
- Slender Manse: 1940
- ... September 1940. "Old house of gold miner. Telluride, Colorado." Medium format negative by Russell Lee for the Farm Security ... View full size.
Even the housing in Colorado is narrow-gauge.
Getting into Fashion --- Again This would ... Posted by Dave - 10/01/2018 - 5:00pm -
- From the Gang at Work: 1921
- Washington, D.C., circa 1921. "Manning, 617 Colorado Building." National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View ... the Richmond News-Leader and Roanoke Times, both at 617 Colorado Building.
However, he continued authoring articles into the '20s ... Posted by Dave - 09/13/2011 - 9:18pm -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1921. "Manning, 617 Colorado Building." National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View full size.
In the midst of lifeThere is just something very demoralizing about this image, even beyond the subject matter. Those vast banks of gray flowers, perhaps. Something of a memento mori effect.
And that looks as though it may be a steel casket, which I believe was still a relative rarity in the early '20s.
Don't forget to writeEither the gang at work are sad to see him go, or they're celebrating like mad.
Fragrant funeralsI was four when my grandmother died and in those days, the funerals were at the home of the deceased. She was in repose in her living room for three days and two nights and the scene was similar to this, although not as elaborate. Since we were also staying at her house around the clock, I have never been able to forget the strong sweet smell of flowers that filled the house, most especially the carnations. Even to this day, the smell of carnations takes me back there, reminding me of that funeral in every minute detail. Off the subject, my son was in Queens, N.Y. at the cemetery for the burial of John Gotti and said there were at least three or four huge full-size vans filled with incredible floral arrangements. Van Gogh was smothered with sunflowers. What else do you wanna know?
Press CorpseGeorge H. Manning is listed in the November 1921 Congressional Directory as a member of the White House Press Corps representing the Richmond News-Leader and Roanoke Times, both at 617 Colorado Building.
However, he continued authoring articles into the '20s and '30s, so I'm guessing he is not the coffin-dweller, but perhaps the one who commissioned the photograph.
Colorado BuildingHere's the outside.
I am not cryingIt's my allergies that are acting up!
From the Gang at Work? You're killin' me.
Fair Thee WellThe ultimate retirement party theme! Bad sign if you're the guest of honour!
Such a shameHe (or she) just barely got a glimpse of the Roaring Twenties!
[As we can see, it's a he. - Dave]
Truth dawns on CopsThe evil mastermind behind all those gangland killings - Freddie the Florist.
Hope for the futureWe always take up a collection and send flowers at the place where I work. There's already a kitty started for the big day when the boss kicks the bucket.
FreemasonThe arrangement on top of the mirror (with a G in the center) is a masonic seal, so the decedent was likely a Mason.
Due ritesOut of respect, let's not leave Manning's death unremarked. At least people missed this person enough to send big piles of flowers.
The contestIt seems that when a person dies, a competition immediately erupts among acquaintances and family to see who can send the most elaborate floral decoration to adorn the casket. All you have to do is call a florist, lay out money, and your condolences are displayed via lavish vegetables in the form of wreaths, and the like. It's easy. You don't have to give any thought to it, so remembering anything notable about the deceased, or expressing heartfelt sentiment, can be left to the preacher. You give him a tip. As for the poor dead person, what do they care? Not a jot. It's a funny custom in this culture and I don't get it. When I croak I hope people will actually expend a bit of effort to remember something we shared. With luck it will be a good memory, but even if it is bad I prefer it over oceans of witless, but mandatory floral extravaganzas.
At least it doesn't say"From His Grateful Employees"
(The Gallery, Natl Photo, NYC)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/29761u.thumbnail.jpg "From the Gang at Work: 1921")
- The Turning Point: 1910
- Colorado circa 1910. "Crystal Park autoroad trip. Pike's Peak and Cog Road from ... Packard Trucks Fitted with Sight-Seeing Bodies Beat the Colorado Burros at Their Own Game
To Crystal Park in the heart of the ... the scenic trip advertised by the Crystal Park Company of Colorado Springs. Five Packard sight-seeing cars are used on the route, one ... Posted by Dave - 08/03/2012 - 4:06pm -
- Meet the Rommels: 1915
- Oct. 30, 1915. Fort Collins (vicinity), Colorado. "A case of 'Economic Need.' Jacob Rommel and his family live in this ... emotion. Her laugher may not be as free.
The Rommels: Colorado Beet Farmers This is Joe Manning, of the Lewis Hine Project. I ... Posted by Dave - 09/04/2017 - 2:02pm -
- Black Tie: 1943
- ... can immerse yourself in that old-time railroad smell. The Colorado narrow gauge lines, like Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec ... Posted by Dave - 07/29/2024 - 9:58pm -
![March 1943. Albuquerque, New Mexico. "At the Santa Fe R.R. tie plant. The ties made of pine and fir, are seasoned for eight months. The steaming black ties have just come from the retort, where they have been impregnated with creosote for eight hours." 4x5 Kodachrome transparency by Jack Delano. View full size.
StinkytownMy wife grew up on Terre Haute, Indiana, where they had a creosote factory that made railroad ties. Some days we could smell Terre Haute seven miles east on I-70 before we got there. I can only imagine how nasty it would be to work with the chemical.
If you believe Google MapsActo the address given in the various SuperFund papers this is in the vicinity of the current autorack terminal, but there s a lot of empty land there.
Concrete ties are used in high-speed service and in some nasty places where wood ties don't last long, but for the most part creosote-treated ties are what get set under almost all freight rail in the USA. So if you want to know what creosote smells like, the trackside is the place to go. Unless you like sniffing telephone poles.
My old jobI had a summer job unloading those creosote-infused railroad ties. That was a nasty, nasty job. The ties are very hot and creosote vapors burn, so you have to cover all exposed skin with calamine lotion. But it’s the middle of summer and it’s hot, so anywhere your sweat lands on you, it washes away the calamine, and you get a burn.
Not a happy summer.
Donkey EngineThe small shed in the center of the photo appears to house a steam "donkey", a steam-operated winch, used to pull the narrow-gauge tie cars in and out of the various sidings. The two men in the center seem to be wrangling the donkey cable, and the large round objects on the ground near them are probably large pulleys, used for changing the direction of travel of the cable.
Black Tie, forsoothI know I've said it before, but I'll say it again: the only thing better than these excellent photos is the delicious titles you come up with for them. This level of cleverness is a sort of high-wire act and I constantly marvel at your surefootedness way up there ...
Creosote steaming!I wouldn't like walking there in the clouds of creosote!
Anyway, this is an interesting photo. Thanks for sharing it here!
Railyard ParkIs this the area that's now Railyard Park? Definitely interesting to see what it looked like back in the day.
If toothpicks were dollarsthis would just about cover the national debt.
I lovethe smell of creosote in the morning!
Not surprisinglyThis became a Superfund site. It's just south of the GE aircraft engine plant.
Air QualityI'm trying to imagine how pungent those aromas would have been.
Like Cookies from the OvenMmmm the smell of creosote. I used to buy it at the hardware for dippin' the bottom of fence posts. Not for sale to the general public anymore. The environmentalists took that simple pleasure away from us. Rotten.
Save the trees!Now they make them out of concrete!
Smells like ... Progress!There are still a few historic rail lines where you can immerse yourself in that old-time railroad smell. The Colorado narrow gauge lines, like Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec Scenic, and the Georgetown Loop come to mind. Ahhh, the heady perfume of coal smoke, hot grease, and of course, creosote.
Train SmellAlways loved the smell of the old railways. Of course, the old telephone poles smelled the same on a hot summer day.
The only place to really immerse yourself in the scent is a railway museum. The Museum of Science and Technology here has a big room filled with cars and engines. When I worked there, it was my job to dust these babies. The job was a pleasure only because of the smell of trains.
Smells not unlike my car does, at the moment, because of a slipped brake pad.
Where's Godzilla?You'll need him when those caterpillars hatch!
Blue puddlesI work as a trackman for a Northeastern railroad. We still put in wooden ties all the time. Creosote is a real nasty little chemical that not only burns, but causes a slipping hazard as it will ooze out of the tie in high heat and will make the wood feel like a newly waxed floor. And if it rained the day before, look out for those nasty little blue puddles all over the place.
Note the narrow gaugeThe creosote trains, center and right foreground and middleground, are running on narrow gauge track, while the flat cars on the left and the gondolas and crane (right background) are on standard gauge track. Hard to tell, but the narrow gauge could be 3 feet, possibly less (30 inches?). It doesn't look like there is any dual-gauge trackage in the photo, but this was not uncommon in industrial settings such as steel mills.
The superb quality of the photograph (view full size!) is cause yet again to lament the demise of Kodachrome, the finest color transparency film ever produced, bar none. Although K-chrome in cut film sizes such as 4x5 had not been produced for many years, 35mm size was made right up to the end of production in 2009. It is missed by all serious film photographers. Kodachrome images, properly stored, will still be vivid and true a hundred years from now. I wouldn't bet a nickel on anything digital lasting one-tenth as long.
[Nonsense. - Dave]
(The Gallery, Kodachromes, Albuquerque, Jack Delano, Railroads)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/1a34734u.thumbnail.jpg "Black Tie: 1943")
- Spit and Polish: 1923
- ... quality. The folks in Sandusky prefer pressed steel.
Colorado Building It appears that the office is on the south wall in the southwest corner of the Colorado Building located at 14th and G Streets, NW. The northeast corner of ... Posted by Dave - 09/15/2014 - 7:59am -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1923. "Traffic World office." Tobacco-friendly on both the left and the right. Harris & Ewing Collection glass negative. View full size.
1923 TechA vintage 1923 word processor was in use as well. I wonder, is that a stapler toward the right side on the unused desk? If not does anyone know what that contraption is?
[It's a postal scale. -tterrace]
By golly it is. Thank you.
BalancedA tip of the hat to the photographer who has balanced his indoor lighting perfectly with the exterior seen through the windows. Not an easy task today, let alone in 1923.
Late, But UnlamentedI can recall when banks had a cuspidor (or "spittoon") at each teller's window and they punctuated the rows of benches in train stations, usually brimming with their attractive contents: phlegm, cigar butts, and many, many microbes.
Their care and cleaning must have brought a feeling of great personal fulfillment to their custodians.
WillardThat building beyond the lovely young lady's head is the Willard Hotel. I've never stayed there, but I hear that it's nice.
When did spittoons disappear from offices?I would have guessed they'd be gone by 1923, but apparently not.
Chaw ProtectionInteresting how the spittoons each have their own little mat underneath to protect the carpet from bad aim.
I wonder what they are made of? They almost look like the plastic you would find today in a chair mat, but I don't know if that type of material was available then. In fact, the chairs don't even have any type of mat underneath.
A little too cozyI remember many years ago when I first started in the business I'm still in today (long after this photo was taken I'm happy to report), we had desks with an arrangement similar to these old "partner" desks. Management had pushed them against each other, front to front, so that I sat looking at my co-worker all day. One particular character that sat across from me for a while, sported a moustache that quite resembled a cow catcher on the front of an old steam locomotive. Each day he would return to the office about 1 o'clock with a goodly portion of his lunch embedded in it. I was most productive in the afternoons, never looking up from what was on my desk, and keeping my nose to the proverbial grindstone. For better or worse, cubicles have their advantages.
Who's whoI'll bet he just can't wait for Who's Who in America 1923-1924
Quality File Cabinets.I love that cabinet on the back wall with 5 little drawers at the top. They don't make them like that anymore, or with that level of quality. The folks in Sandusky prefer pressed steel.
Colorado BuildingIt appears that the office is on the south wall in the southwest corner of the Colorado Building located at 14th and G Streets, NW. The northeast corner of the Willard Hotel located at 14th and F Streets can be seen through the window down 14th.
Shut those windowsIf a cold evening is expected. That looks like a brass monkey on the desk.
Old meets newPicked up the same desk lamp on the book case in the upper right hand side of the picture at thrift shop 40 years ago for a couple dollars. Now used on my computer table.
Spitoons in the Office?My boss was using one when he retired in 1978....
14th and F Street NWI think the view out the window is looking south on 14th Street NW from the northwest corner of F and 14th Street NW. The Willard Hotel is visible down the street on the right.
The small building containing the spittoon-festooned office at the time was only two stories tall. Around 1990, the building was renovated and only the stone facade was saved. Seven more stories were added, and several adjoining small buildings were totally demolished. The architectural motif of the building on the corner was extended north and east to clad all the hulking new construction.
(The Gallery, D.C., Harris + Ewing, The Office)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-21813a.thumbnail.jpg "Spit and Polish: 1923")
- Tournament of Roses: 1960
- New Year's Day 1960 along Colorado Avenue in Pasadena, California, and the 71st annual Tournament of ... of the Pasadena City College Library.
Bob's on Colorado WOW it really was there! I have the Coffee Shop sign from over the ... Posted by ollie - 09/19/2011 - 11:30pm -
- Super Giant: 1964
- ... I work for a division of Kroger called King Soopers in Colorado. My store, which opened in February 1960, has a lot in common with ... Posted by Dave - 11/22/2008 - 6:35am -
![1964. The Super Giant supermarket in Rockville, Maryland. Color transparency by John Dominis, Life magazine photo archive. View full size.
Twins?Look at the two ladies above checkout #7 and #8. They could be twins .. at least sisters. I love this photo ... there is so much to see! Funny how the Clorox label has not changed. That's good branding!
Plaid ElephantDidn't that fellow come from the Island of Misfit Toys? Nice to see him or her gainfully employed.
Credit cards?Are them Credit Card Imprinters on the registers? I didn't think grocery stores took credit cards until the late 80's.
[The imprinters would be for charge cards, which for gas stations, grocery stores and other retailers go back at least to the 1950s and the era of the Charga-Plate. Charge accounts go back even farther, to the early days of retailing. Below: Artwork from a 1966 newspaper ad. What goes back to the late 80s is using bank-issued credit cards as an everyday substitute for cash, as opposed to merchant charge accounts, which generally had to be paid in full at the end of the month. - Dave]
How little has changedIt's funny how things haven't changed. some of the equipment looks antiquated, but the whole checkout process is still the same.
Little detailsLook closely at the rack at the checkout.
One thing that stands out for me is razor blades. Lots and lots of razor blades. Now you're lucky if you even find them buried in among the 3-, 5-, 19-blade razors. (Don't even look for a safety razor today. I've tried 10 different stores here, no luck.)
Next, just above the Lane 5 sign is a Brach's candy bin. Looks like the good folks at Time-Life have photoshopped the LIFE logo onto the bin. Anyone back me up on this?
[That's not "photoshopped." It says "As advertised in LIFE." Often seen on product displays back in the Olden Days. - Dave]
GeeSure were a lot of Caucasians back in 1964.
Paper or plastic?It was at a Giant supermarket in suburban Washington in 1983 that I was first asked by the cashier "paper or plastic?" At first I was confused, thinking that she was asking me whether I wanted to pay with paper money or a credit card....
Keep GoingOh my great good God. I've never wanted a picture to "keep going" more than this one! I wish they had invented 360 degree viewing back then.
AMAZING!!
The good old daysI worked in a grocery store similar to this. Same cash registers. Brings back a lot of memories.
Life Sure Got CasualComparing the turn-of-the-century pictures with this one shows the remarkable change in American public attire.
The fellow writing the check in the right foreground might have been arrested for public indecency in earlier Shorpy Land. Didn't see too many men in short pants in 1905 stores.
Deja VuI'm amazed at the number of products which are still instantly recognizable today. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for those prices!
Check out the checkoutI can only imagine how long it took to get through the checkout line in the days before bar code scanners. It looks like the cashiers had to consult that notepad they all have propped up against their registers.
Random musingsThose elephants are, like, crazy! People were thinner back then. The Clorox label hasn't changed a bit. Curious that the checkout ladies visible are all men.
It's too bad we can't see the tabloid racks at the checkout stands. I just know there's a juicy headline on the Enquirer.
Wow!I work about two miles from Rockville. Does anyone know the address of this store? Is it still there. This site is unbelievable...
The ViewWhat strikes me about this is no one in view is morbidly obese.
Look at the kid...... eyeballing that open Brach's candy display. Those are almost unchanged from than till now. I wonder if he copped a "sample"?
CheckersThe checkers, the ones shown at least, are all male. This was once a well paid and somewhat skilled job if only for the sharp memory and hand-eye coordination. The gaudy merchandising hasn't changed much in 44 years but the checkout experience? Well, what do you all think , better or worse?
Convenient beer & wineAt least in the late 70s, Marylanders learned to spot Super Giants, because through some complicated shift of definition (like SUVs = trucks), these stores were not subject to the prohibition that grocery stores and convenience stores can't sell alcohol. Today Giant Food remains but Super Giants are gone, and it's no longer possible to buy wine with your packaged ground beef.
Pre-UPCOne of the more striking things here is the checkout registers where the clerk actually had to read a stamped-on price and key it in manually (after consulting a list of what might have been on discounted sale that day).
Within ten years many registers would have their displays as bright glowing fluorescent digits (later LED/LCD) vs these mechanical pop-up number tags. UPC scanning lasers wouldn't be common for another 10 years or so.
Look at all the Men!I am not accustomed to seeing so much testosterone in a grocery store! Everything looks supersized, even the hairdos. It's kinda funny how high they stacked the displays, you'd need a ladder to get at some of it.
LinesThe lines are still as long after the "wonderful" invention of Bar Codes, Scanners and Chip & PIN credit/debit cards. One step forward, two steps back.
So much to see!Dave, would you mind enlarging this to about six feet high? I can't make out all the details!
What is Loon?On one of the ends....
[The sign says LOOK. - Dave]
Supermarket "Where's Waldo?"Not one of these people have bottled water in their cart and there's no gum or candy visible on the registers...
Now, find the: box of Life cereal, the Cracker Jacks, the Domino sugar, the Raisin Bran, the grape jelly, the grape juice, the box of Cheer detergent, and the anxious store manager.
Brach's CandiesThe display of the bulk candy bin appears to read "Advertised in Life." I wonder how many Life readers caught the subtle product placement.
A refreshing lack of "expression"Nary a tattoo nor a facial piercing in sight.
Where's Waldo?I think he's in Aisle 6. Very interesting photo!
Brach's CandiesScary how 21 years later, I could have been the kid looking into the Brach's Bulk Candies bin... I totally forgot about those bins until this picture.
People were slimmer back thenOther than the antiquated cash registers and the male cashiers, what has changed the most is that we are more obese now.
I love this pictureSo rich. So much to keep the eye busy. Almost like a Where's Waldo cartoon. From the Plaid Elephants advertising "Top Value" something-or other, all the way down to the Quaker logo on a box of Rice Chex. And who's that woman in line in front of the chip rack? She has a BIG BUTT! (If anyone tells me that's my mother, then she's YOUR mother.)
Charge-a-platesThey go back to at least the 40's -- I remember them well. It was metal and specially notched for each of the stores which accepted them and where you had a charge account. Current plastic models, good for almost anything, are great but far less secure.
Modern LifeThe Life cereal box behind the Rice Chex is virtually unchanged!
Not so inexpensiveMedian income of all families in 1964 was about $6600. For female full-time workers, the median income was $3700. Median income of nonwhite males was $2800.
http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-047.pdf
I'll bet they didn't think these prices were all that cheap.
I do wonder what day of the week this photo was taken - I'll bet it was a Saturday.
Get your slob on!I imagine that this was taken on a very hot day. No matter what the weather, though, imagine this same scene in 1934 or 1904 - you wouldn't see people out in public wearing undershirts and shorts. I wonder if there's a particular moment in time or series of events when it became OK to look "slobby" in public? No sagging pants or backwards baseball caps, anyway.
I second the vote For blown up sections of this photograph, a lot of shelves I would like to explore.
[Click "view full size." That's as blown up as it gets. - Dave]
Checking outWhen I worked in grocery in the mid 1970's, with only slightly newer registers, the checkout time would be about the same as now. Good checkers could check and bag at about the same rate as now - the difference being that the checker had to pay attention and couldn't have conversations with their coworkers while checking.
The notepads have the produce prices on them. Typically, you would remember those after the first few checkouts of the same produce item per day and not need to refer back very often. Remember that the range of produce available was less than today, both because of improved distribution and widening of tastes.
The preferred checking technique is to pull the item off with the left hand, check the price, and enter the price into the register with the right hand. The register we had had plastic covers to cover the keys for anything past $9.99, since items of that price were pretty rare, since grocery stores sold groceries and not other items.
In general, we had fewer stoppages for price checks than a modern system will because of missing items in their database. The grocery stocked fewer items back then.
The flip side is that inventory management was a pain - we would manually order based on what was on the shelves and did a periodic total inventory to find the correct wastage values from spoilage and shoplifting.
I much prefer the wider range of food and produce available today.
And just think...This could be one of the few larger group Shorpy pictures where most of the folks are still alive. The cute girl in the cart would be my sister's age; the adults are mostly in the mid-late 20s to early 40s range, giving them ages from the high 60s to the mid 80s. The older kids would still only be in their fifties. Anyone from Rockville know these folks?
Fantastic Photo!Even though it's far "younger" that most of the great photos that Shorpy features, it's one of the most fascinating you've ever put up here. I can't take my eyes off it.
Do we know the address?My partner and I -- en route to Bob's Noodle House -- have wondered about the origins of a now-empty grocery store in Rockville, near "downtown." Perhaps this Super Giant? Certainly of this era.
You can just make it out in the middle of this view -- between the bus shelter and the tree -- through the parking lots.
[The Super Giant was at 12051 Rockville Pike and Randolph Road, where Montrose Crossing is today. See the next comment up. - Dave]
View Larger Map
Rockville Super GiantThe 25,000-square-foot Super Giant that's the subject of this post opened November 12, 1962, at 12051 Rockville Pike at Randolph Road, anchoring a 205,000-square-foot discount shopping center with 3,000-car parking lot (and a "Jolly Trolley" to get you from car to store). Today it's a "lifestyle center" called Montrose Crossing.
Below: A long time ago, in a shopping center far, far away ...
Wow. Just wow.I, too, worked in a grocery store in the late-70s when I was in high school. As earlier commented, apparently not a whole lot changed from when this picture was taken to then (well, except the hairstyles and clothes -- which changed a *lot*).
I remember the registers well -- the columns of keys were dedicated to 10's, 1's, 10 cents, 1 cent. The large palm-contoured key to the right would "enter" in the decimal digits. Lots of noise and moving parts. A good cashier could move the goods along the conveyor belt as quickly as the scanners of today. The rapid spinning of numbers on the register display was mesmerizing. The one big holdup was the dreaded "price check" if a stocker had to be summoned -- but more often the checker already had the price memorized (good thing too, since price label "swapping" was a problem).
I stocked shelves using the incredibly complicated but efficient label gun used to print and affix the prices to the products. As a stocker you had a large holster that held this amazing device.
The more I think about it, things have not changed that much.
We still have lines, conveyor belts, "separators," shopping carts, impulse displays, checkers, baggers, stockers, butchers, and produce guys (the latter two being union jobs).
At least until the self checkout and then later RFID based systems (you just walk out of the store with the goods and the store will automatically figure this out and bill your card).
Top Value StampsMy mother collected those, they were also used at Kroger's in the Middle South. What surprises me is that there are no cigarette racks at the checkouts. When I was a kid, every grocery store had the cigarette packs in racks right at the checkouts, with a sign screaming "Buy A Pack Today!" Maybe it was a Maryland thing. I also remember drugstores and groceries where cigarettes were sold only in the pharmacies. Go figure.
More of these pleaseI add my request for more photos like this of just ordinary life from the '50s & '60s. Sure brings back memories of simpler and I think happier times. When I was a kid I used to imagine how marvelous life would be fifty years hence in the 21st century. Well I'm there now -- and I'd like to go back to the 1950s please.
[And you can, thanks to the magic of the Inter-nets! I wonder when we'll have those TVs you can hang on the wall like a painting. And Picture-Phones. Can't wait. - Dave]
Mama can I have a penny?You know what would be right next to the electric doors (and that big rubber mat you had to step on to make them open) -- a row of gumball machines! Whatever happened to those? I loved just looking at them. Those glass globes, all those colorful gumballs. Sigh.
RealityThats a highly posed photo. Everyone in the photo would have had to sign a model release for this to be published in Life. It is "possible" that the people where chosen for their looks.
[I've worked in publishing for over 20 years. You wouldn't need a release for any picture taken in a public place, and certainly not for a crowd or group shot. Actually you don't need releases at all. Some publishers may have looked at them as insurance against lawsuits for invasion of privacy. Probably most didn't bother. As for "posed," I doubt it. - Dave]
Blue StampsWhile I miss the concept of Blue Stamps or trading stamps, I get points from my store and they send me a check each quarter to use in the store.
I have one premium my parents redeemed from a trading stamp program - a really hideous waterfront print which they had in their home until they divorced. I claimed it from my father and it's hung in the laundry room of every house I've ever lived in since I moved on my own.
I remember the old way grocery stores were laid out, and I was always fascinated by the registers.
Link: Whatever Happened to Green Stamps?
[Down where I come from we had S&H Green Stamps -- Sperry and Hutchinson. And "redemption centers" chock-full of cheesy merchandise. Or you could get cash. When I was in college I chose cash. My fingers would be all green (and minty) from sticking wet stamps in the redemption books. - Dave]
Lived next to one just like it in VirginiaThis is just like the Super Giant on South Glebe Road in Arlington, close by where my family was living in 1964. It's where my mother shopped and I loved to accompany her and browse around. You could buy anything from a live lobster to a coat, and just like the Rockville store, it was 20 minutes from downtown Washington.
Deja vuMy supermarket experience goes back about 10 years before this one . . . but what a photo!
We had women cashiers, and man, were they fast. I was a stock clerk and bagger, and had to move fast to get the groceries in those brown paper bags (no plastic). I also had to wear a white shirt and bow tie. Naturally, we took the groceries to the car for customers and put them in the car or trunk, wherever asked. That was known as customer service.
We, too, gave S & H green stamps, although Top Value stamps were available a number of places.
Price checkerMy father was a lifelong grocery man, making a cycle from clerk to manager to owner and finally back to clerking in the 1950s until he retired in 1966. He took pride in doing his job well, whatever it was. Each night, sitting in his green leather chair, he'd read our two newspapers, one local and one city, end to end. One night I noticed that he'd paused for quite some time at the full-page weekly ad for the market he worked at and I asked him why. He was memorizing the prices of the specials starting the next day.
Brach's candy displayThe shot of the boy near the candy display reminds me of a time back in the very early 1960s where I did help myself to a piece or two. I looked up, saw an employee looking at me and boy, I was scared to death he would tell my parents.
Also, with the evolution in scanning and so forth, it brought to an end, more or less, of checking the receipt tape against the stamped prices for mistakes the checker made.
Checking ReceiptsI worked in a store just like this while in high school in the early '70s. The main difference I've noticed is that Sunday is a major shopping day now. Our store was open on Sunday, because the crosstown rival was open. We (and they) didn't do enough business to pay for the lights being on. Two people ran the store on Sundays - a checker and a stocker/bagboy. And we didn't have much to do. All we ever saw was people picking up a single item or picnic supplies. How times have changed.
Now we check the receipt for mistakes made in shelf pricing. Did I get charged the sale price or not?
[So after your groceries are rung up, you go back down the aisles checking the receipt against the shelf prices? Or you make note of the shelf prices while you're shopping? That's what I call diligent. - Dave]
Stamp dispensersWhen I was a kid back in the late sixties, there were stamp dispenser next to each cash register, with a dial a lot like a telephone dial that would spew stamps as the cashier turned it. I'm surprised they don't have a similar thing in this store.
[The grocery store we went to had an electric thingy that spit them out. Which looked a lot like the brown boxes shown in the photo. - Dave]
Checking ReceiptsWe don't check every price - just the sale prices which are listed in the weekly ad, available at the front of the store. Sometimes the ad price doesn't get properly entered into the computer, so I pay attention, especially if it's a significant savings.
Relative CostsMy mother kept note of her grocery bills for 40 years -- and in 1962 complained that it cost $12 a week to feed a family of four. Considering that my dad's salary was $75 a week, that was indeed a lot of money. We used to save Green Stamps, Plaid Stamps, and cigar bands for giveaways in the store.
[That's a good point. I had to chuckle when I noticed that the most these registers could ring up is $99.99. - Dave]
Amazing how pictures take you backThis is what grocery stores looked like when I was a wee lass in the '70's. This could have been our local A&P, except the freezer cases would have been brown instead of white.
And I bet if you checked the ingredients on the packages those thin people are buying, you wouldn't see corn syrup as a top-ten ingredient of non-dessert items.
A & PSee the short story by John Updike for the perfect literary pairing to this photo. Well, in my opinion anyways; it's the first thing that came to mind upon seeing it.
I Remember Those Elephants!My great-grandma lived in Rockville at that time and I remember those elephants!! What a floodgate of memories just opened up! Thanks again, Dave!
[Now we know why memory and elephants go together. - Dave]
Making ChangeAs those cash registers (most likely) didn't display the change due, the cashiers actually had to know how to make change.
[Cash registers waaay back in 1964 (and before) did indeed show change due. And sometimes were even connected to a change-maker that spit your coins into a little tray. - Dave]
Brown paper packages tied up with stringThis is such an amazing photo -- I love it!
As someone who was still 12 years away from being born when this photo was taken, I'm not familiar with the old customs. What kind of items would have been wrapped up in brown paper like the woman in line at register 7 has? It looks like a big box, so that ruled out meats or feminine products in my mind ...any ideas?
[It's probably her laundry. - Dave]
White MarketsIn Knoxville we had groceries called White Stores that looked like most any other grocery of the late 70's, early 80's: Dimly lit with greenish fluorescent tubes, bare-bones interior decoration, and indeed a Brach's candy bin.
My mom used Green Stamps for years. It took eons to fill a book. At the White Stores you could "buy" various pieces of merchandise. She got a floor lamp one year and a set of Corning Ware the next.
It seems like over the last 5-10 years, they've made grocery stores all upscale looking. Almost makes you feel like you're getting ripped off.
Warehouse LookSay goodbye to this timeless shot and hello to the warehouse stylings of the local Costco. Grocery stores have been jazzing up their interiors hoping to attract and keep customers. It's not working. When I go to one, they are far less busy than even in the recent past. They have cut the payrolls down significantly here in San Diego due to losing profit to the warehouses.
Consequently, the help is far less competent, far younger, far less helpful, and far below the wage scales of the wonderful veterans they cannot really replace.
We need some grocery stores for certain smallish items that the warehouse giants will never carry. But they will dwindle down to a very precious few, and do it soon. Of course, this grandiose Super Giant displaced their mom-and-pop competitors. Same tune, different singers.
Multi-tasking fingers>> the columns of keys were dedicated to 10's, 1's, 10 cents, 1 cent.
And a really good clerk would be pressing at least two keys at a time, which modern keypads can't do.
Pure gold.What could lure me from my busy, lurk-only status? Only this amazing photo!
Wow. Just wow. And not a cell phone in sight...
Pre-Obesity EpidemicAnd look. No great big fat people. Sure, there a couple of middle-agers spreading out here & there, but you know the ones I mean.
Smaller aisles and carts!Because people are much bigger these days, everything else is too! I remember shopping with my mom and for the big holidays and having to use more than one cart.
Super GiantThe Super Giant was in the shopping center that now has a Sports Authority, Old Navy and a much smaller Giant.
Super Giant was similar to what you would find at WalMart now -- part department store, part grocery store.
I grew up in Rockville and we used to shop there all the time, until they closed that is. Guess the world wasn't ready for that combination.
I could be in that picture, but I'd be too young to walk.
GurskyesqueThis reminds me of Andreas Gursky's photo "99 Cent" -- it could almost have been taken in the same place.
Fiberglass tubs on conveyor belts.Great picture & website. I remember them bagging your groceries, putting them in fiberglass tubs, and giving you a placard with a 3 digit number on it. The tub would go on a conveyor belt to the outside of the store, you'd drive up, and they'd take your placard and load your groceries. Wonder if there are any pictures of those...
Proto-WalmartThis store was huge and it was quite unique in the same model as today's Walmart with groceries, clothing, etc. It is odd that the concept did not survive in that era considering the success of Walmart today. Personally, as a kid, I didn't like it when my mom got clothes for me from there. They were the off-brands.
I also remember the GEM membership store which was in the current Mid-Pike Plaza on the opposing SW corner, which was a precursor to Price Club except that it didn't have groceries.
I Remember It WellI grew up in Rockville, MD and was in this store many times. It was a full "one stop" department store with a grocery store attached. I loved going there with my mother because while she was grocery shopping I could make my way to the toy department. Kid nirvana!
I might have been there!Oh do I remember that! My family lived in Rockville until 1965, and my mother usually took me along. After moving, we'd go to the Rockville Super Giant only if we needed to stop at the department store side.
The beige boxes that you see at Checkouts 6 and 7 were the Top Value Stamp dispensers. (The man in the T-shirt is signing a check on top of one.) They automatically spit out the right amount of those yellow stamps. We bought quite a few things with Top Value Stamps, including a well-built Westinghouse room dehumidifier.
The Giant Food at Friendship Heights had a conveyor belt but this store did not. This one had so much land, there was a huge sidewalk area out front where you could bring your carts -- but not to the car. Instead there were pairs of plastic cards, one with a hook for the cart, one with a hole. They had a three digit number, and the note "NO TIPPING". Took me a while to understand that wasn't about tipping over the carts. When you pulled up, an employee (probably young) put the bags in your car for you.
Speaking of brand names, I can see the stacks of Mueller's spaghetti in Aisle 6. It's the brand we ate then. (Now I know Farina flour has no business in pasta!)
The meat department is along the wall at the left. Deli and seafood were at the far back corner. There were a pair of "Pick a Pickle" barrels in front of the deli counter. One Dill, one Half-Sour. Good pickles, and great fish. The fish department has always been a source of pride for Giant. Of course this was back when a flounder was over a foot long, not these six-inch midgets we get today. All the fish were whole on ice, only gutted, and they scraped the scales, and cut or filleted the fish to your order.
The produce department starts behind the Brach's counter, and extends out the photo to the left. There were one or two manned scales there, where they would weigh your brown paper bag of produce, mark the price with a grease pencil, and staple it shut. If it was something tender like cherries, they would put "XX" on it, so that it would be correctly bagged. So the checkers only needed to know the prices of "piece" produce.
There was a "post mix" soda machine at the end of Aisle 12, 13, or 14, which would mix syrup and soda water into a cup. I'd often get a Coke. Probably 5 cents. I remember getting Mercury dimes as change from that machine -- this photo is from the last year of silver dimes and quarters. (Serious inflation was kicking in to pay for the Vietnam War.)
Cigarettes? Where were they? I should know, my mom smoked then. They were only in cartons, they were so dirt-cheap that nobody bought them by the pack, except in vending machines. They certainly didn't need to be kept "out of the reach of children" then. They were in a six-foot set of shelves somewhere.
I suppose I had no taste in clothing at the time, as most of my clothes came from there. Well, let's be honest -- they were much nicer and more stylish than clothes at Sears. (Oh, those horrible Sears Toughskin jeans with the rubber inside the knees!)
The department store side, which started to the right of the checkouts, was easily twice the size of what you see here. It had a lot of selection, and lots of good specialty counters. There was a photo counter at the front of the store (pretty much under the photographer, who was up in the balcony where the restrooms were). They sold things at fair prices, and gave good and honest sales help. There was a hobby counter in the far back right corner.
Speaking of the restrooms, they had seats that automatically flipped up into the back of the toilet, with UV lights to "sanitize" them. Spooky.
The current Giant Food store at that site, which my friends call the "Gucci Giant," is on the former department store side. When they first shut down the three Super Giant department stores, they left the grocery store were it was. I think about the time that White Flint Mall started "upscaling" Rockville Pike, they built a much fancier store on the old department store side.
Compared to now, Rockville Pike was very working class, very blue collar. Congressional Plaza (on the site of the former Congressional Airport) had a JC Penney as the anchor, and a Giant Food. Near the Super Giant was an EJ Korvettes, now the site of G Street Decorator Fabrics. A little off Rockville Pike was GEM -- Government Employees Membership. These were the days when "Fair Trade" pricing (price fixing) was still legal, and enforceable everywhere but the District of Columbia. But GEM, being a "membership" store, could discount, so that's where you bought Fair Trade products like Farberware at a discount. Of course, GEM had to compete with discount stores in the District, which Congress had conveniently exempted from the Fair Trade Act, so they could shop cheaply.
Scan itI enjoyed coming back to this photo for new comments -- I had one before, but long before the new post.
I live not far from Troy, Ohio, where the local newspaper just had an article about the bar code scanner. The very first item scanned -- anywhere -- was at the Marsh Supermarket in Troy, in 1974. Troy is less then 30 miles north of Dayton, where NCR developed the scanner. The Marsh store is still there, but NCR is leaving.
King Soopers, 1960I work for a division of Kroger called King Soopers in Colorado. My store, which opened in February 1960, has a lot in common with this one. They have tried to modernize it but you can still see the old store showing through in places. Great photo.
Bagger NostalgiaRegrettably, the baggers are out of view to the right. My greatest nostalgia for supermarkets past concerns the bag boys, practitioners of a high art. They took pride in how compactly they could pack your groceries with attention to putting the fragile items on top -- not to mention that they all tried to outdo each other in speed.
Bagger Nostalgia...Part DeuxWhen I was a kid (1950s) I used to go with my father to the grocery (Kroger's) on Saturday morning. I always helped bag the groceries, especially if they were short handed, and he would always remind me of his bagging rule: "Don't even think about putting the meat next to the soap or even in the same bag."
In the 50s as I remember it the majority of the cashiers were women and that was their only job at the store.
I notice that even as early as the 60s they had the security screens next to the cash register to keep unwanted fingers out of the till form the adjacent aisle.
I also remember making the family excursion to the Top Value redemption store to select the "FREE" gift that the household needed when we had sufficient stamp books filled.
The other Super GiantThe third Super Giant is in White Oak. They took the "Super" off ages ago, but it is all still there. Mostly we went to the one in Laurel, which still retains its huge circa-1960 sign in the parking lot. Around 1980 it ate the old Kresge store next door, but by that time the department store features of the biggest stores were mostly gone. It's kind of funny -- the mall they built just south of the shopping center almost killed the latter, but now the shopping center is very busy and the mall may well be torn down.
Memories from the early '60sMy mom worked at Chestnut Lodge and would often stop by the Super Giant on Rockville Pike on her way home to shop for groceries -- and clothes for me! I was much too young to be brand- or fashion-conscious and I remember loving the little cotton A-line dresses that Mom would bring home. We lived in the District and a big thrill for me would be to drive up to Rockville with my parents on the weekends and shop at the Super Giant and Korvettes!
Crossing the PotomacThe hype of Super Giant was enough to entice these Northern Virginians into crossing The Potomac River into Maryland. The commute is commonplace today but not so much in 1964. We had not seen anything like it. Racks & racks of mass produced clothing and groceries, too! Grandmother bought the same suit in 3 different sizes. She and my mother got their money's worth. I was 13. It never left my closet.
The NoiseThe old registers were so noisy. No screens to check what was going on, just quick eye movement to try and keep track. Ahh...back in the day when every item had a price on it.
Ohhhh yeah and is that Blake Shelton?I spent many weekends at this gigantic store on Rockville Pike. I think I even bought a prom dress here....is that possible? I very clearly remember going up to the glassed in observation balcony on the second floor, which gave an overall view of the store (as this photo shows). That way I could scan the aisles in order to see where my Dad was at any given moment. I love this photo, and HEY isn't that a time-traveling Blake Shelton a little left of the center wearing a white short-sleeved shirt??
(LIFE, Stores & Markets)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/supermarket_.thumbnail.jpg "Super Giant: 1964")
- 3rd Int'l Pageant of Pulchritude
- ... California looks like a good candidate. Also check Miss Colorado, pretty cute looking although zero to concave up topside.
But ... FRANCE - Raymonde Allain
3 ITALY - Livia Marracci
4 COLORADO - Mildred Ellene Golden
5 WEST VIRGINIA - Audrey Reilley
6 ... Posted by Dave - 09/07/2011 - 5:40pm -
![Third International Pageant of Pulchritude and Ninth Annual Bathing Girl Revue, June 1928. Galveston, Texas. View full size.
Proto Emo GirlI think I'm in love with the clad-in-black Miss New Jersey.
Meanwhile Miss Nebraska is expressing the love whose name cannot be spoken for Miss Wisconsin.
Congratulations to Miss St.Congratulations to Miss St. Louis, 42nd runner-up.
Mrs?Shouldn't that be "Mr. France". Oofah!
HuhI like how we range from Miss Biloxi to Miss England. I'm surprised we didn't have Miss 22nd Street and Miss Asia, too.
By the way, I know standards of beauty have changed, and the women in pageants today are not necessarily more or less attractive, but Miss St. Louis was a beast. I'm sorry, there had to be some corruption in that contest.
Miss St. LouisBut look at her body. It's all about the body.
NiceMiss Mississippi is fine...
Hm.Objectifying women across the centuries!
Coincidence??Miss France and her predecessor. Different hats, but that nose ... eerie, huh?
Miss St. LouisWhat's the problem with her? Look at her smile...
Miss MilwaukeeAll the way ! A beauty any man could fall in love with.
Funny that......I was thinking the same about that bloke dressed up as Miss St Louis...
SeawallSo they stuck the out-of-town contestants on the beach for the group photo, while the oglers watch from the seawall?
Those Galvestonians learned something from that hurricane!
Fun, Best Legs, Shock JockMiss California gets my vote, she's looks like alot of fun! Miss Utah has the best legs, and Miss St. Louis is Howard Stern in a bathing suit.
PoPI swear Miss Greater New York is winking. Fabulous.
Roaring 20's!See the trends move fast near the end of the decade. Some areas chose slimmer gals that appear to better fit the Flapper styles of the times. Many men of the day would see Miss Austin as being horribly sickly, but today she would have the attributes of a runway model! And yes, Miss CA is absolutely adorable, and the St. Louis pageant must have had very few contestants.
Miss OhioI think Miss Ohio cornered the Amish vote. Miss Utah is one cute little Mormon pixie, working her flirt something fierce- that girl you could paste into a modern photo and nobody would think twice about it.
It's funny how wildly different they all look- a modern contest the girls would all look more or less the same. This photo is a crazy assortment of beauties & cuties, geek girls, dorks, farm girls, prom queens, and linebackers. Awesome!
Lots of Fine Choices in Girls Here ...Take a close look at Miss Pennsylvania. She's showing off some ummmmm talents. Not too shabby. And she is the only one with those. But it seems she and Miss Ohio are wanting to trip the light fantastic. So she's likely spoken for, unless a threesome would work. I have to agree, Miss California looks like a good candidate. Also check Miss Colorado, pretty cute looking although zero to concave up topside.
But clearly this whole contest is rigged, considering Miss St. Louis and Miss France. Holy cow! Either one would be worth chewing your arm off if you woke up next to them with it stuck underneath. They must have done multiple special couch sessions with a bag over their head and paid a bunch of cash just to get into this line up. What on Miss Spain's forehead? Is that the reset button?
1st Prize to Miss BiloxiShe's quite alluring, but does need to work on her posture.
Honorable mentions to Miss San Antonio (very cute), Miss Belgium (best smile), and Miss NY State (quite sexy even by 2009 standards).
And I agree, Nebraska's totally putting the moves on Wisconsin. But so would I. Pennsylvania and Ohio must be roommates. Yeah, that's it. Roommates.
BZZZT! and the correct answer is...Miss Chicago. hubba...
First Runner-UpRaymonde Allain, Miss France 1927, became an actress -- the Internet Movie Database lists her as appearing in 10 films and (in 1974) a television show. She also wrote a book in 1933, "Histoire vraie d'un prix de beaute?" ("True story of a price for beauty"). She married the pianist and composer Alec Siniavine, who composed a love song for her during the Nazi occupation, "Attends moi mon amour." Siniavine also played in a quartet with Django Reinhardt in 1934.
[Miss Allain to the New York Times in 1928: "It is certainly great to be beautiful." - Dave]
"Galveston Bathing Beauties"The event lasted from 1920 to 1931, when the Morality Police had it shut down for showing too much leg.
Miss Chicago took 1st in 1928 and Miss France took 2nd which obviously means ... Miss Missouri was ROBBED!!! Come on, Miss Missouri had the whole package yet she didn't even finish in the top 10?!!
Results
1 UNITED STATES - Ella Van Hueson (Miss Chicago)
2 FRANCE - Raymonde Allain
3 ITALY - Livia Marracci
4 COLORADO - Mildred Ellene Golden
5 WEST VIRGINIA - Audrey Reilley
6 CANADA - Irene Hill
7 LUXEMBOURG - Anna Friedrich
8 OHIO - Mary Horlocker
9 SAN ANTONIO (TX) - Anna Debrow
10 TULSA (OK) - Helen Paris
Contestants
Foreign
BELGIUM - Anne Koyaert
CANADA - Irene Hill
CUBA - Nila Garrido
ENGLAND - Nonni Shields
FRANCE - Raymonde Allain
GERMANY - Hella Hoffman
ITALY - Livia Marracci
LUXEMBOURG - Anna Friedrich
MEXICO - Maria Teresa de Landa
SPAIN - Agueda Adorna
USA states or regions
CALIFORNIA - Geraldine Grimsley
COLORADO - Mildred Golden
CONNECTICUT - Mary Deano
INDIANA - Betty Dumpres
IOWA - Ethel Mae Frette
KENTUCKY - Vergie H. Hendricks
LOUISIANA - Evelyn Smith
MINNESOTA - Delores Davitt
MISSISSIPPI - Louise Fayard
MISSOURI - Margaret Woods
NEBRASKA - Bernice Graf
NEW JERSEY - Elizabeth K. Smith
NEW YORK STATE - Winnifred Watson
OHIO - Mary Horlocker
PENNSYLVANIA - Anna Dubin
UTAH - Eldora Pence
WEST VIRGINIA - Audrey Reilley
WISCONSIN - Betty Porter
USA cities
AUSTIN (TX) - Irene Wilson
BILOXI (MS) - Fleeta Doyle
CHICAGO (IL) - Ella Van Hueson
DALLAS (TX) - Hazel Peck
FORT WORTH (TX) - Cleo Belle Marshall
GREATER NEW YORK (NY) - Isabel Waldner
HOUSTON (TX) - Katherine Miller
LITTLE ROCK (AR) - Frances McCroskey
MILWAUKEE (WI)
NEW ORLEANS (LA) - Georgia Payne
OKLAHOMA CITY (OK) - Mary Kate Drew
SAN ANTONIO (TX) - Anna Debrow
ST. LOUIS (MO) - Eunice Gerling
TULSA (OK) - Helen Paris
http://www.pageantopolis.com/international/universe_1920.htm
Now you've got some names to go with the faces.
[What was at stake was no less than the title of Miss Universe. Controversy erupted when Miss France, Raymonde Allain, came in second to an American girl. - Dave]
Pageant of Pulchritude 2009Seems like the pageant once again is on, after 77 years absence. Found this
http://www.houstonpress.com/slideshow/view/13011295
Butter faceis what we would call Miss St. Louis nowadays. Miss Puffsylvania gets my trophy!
(The Gallery, Pretty Girls, Swimming)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/6a24745u_2.thumbnail.jpg "3rd Int'l Pageant of Pulchritude")
- Point and Shoot: 1925
- ... A rule of thumb. Or head. As a high school teacher in Colorado in the early 1950s, I was the faculty leader of the rifle club. A ... Posted by Dave - 07/23/2012 - 6:44pm -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1925. "Girls' rifle team of Drexel Institute." National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View full size.
By 1926The administration had decided that showing the twin-bill of "Annie, Get Your Gun" and "The Story of Lizzie Borden" was not a great idea.
Ready on the Rightto wipe out the rest of the team! Looks like the fuse is VERY short!
Take cover, Men!"The Great Man Hunt" of 1925 is about to begin!
The Charlie Manson stare!Third from the left. Look out for her; she's on a mission. Not a particularly friendly looking bunch of gals. If you run into them on the street, smile, nod your head and KEEP WALKING!
Quoting Dusty Bottoms"Looks like someone's been down here with the ugly stick."
In today's PC worldYou don't often meet a woman who's shot her own wardrobe!
Firearm Safety...The second girl from the left has the bolt on her rifle closed. Not safe unless you're in a position to fire the thing.
Not Necessarily Unsafe......but not as safe as it could be. I have a bolt action rifle with very similar bolts, and if the safety lever is in the "safe" position you not only can't fire the gun but can't work the bolt either to load a round. Still, the preferred method is to have the bolt open (as most of them are) when the weapons are displayed in this manner.
One might argue that they are not all pointed in a safe direction either (which you do always, even if the bolt is open and there are no rounds in the magazine). A couple of the ladies appear to have their rifles pointed right at their heads.
She won't take "no" for an answer.Before computer dating, it was not uncommon for the less attractive ladies to go out and bag a husband. She needed to be a good shot as not to render him impotant or feable minded.
Duct Tape?My gunnery sergeant would not have been happy with the material condition of No. 3's weapon.
SlinglessInteresting, none of these rifles have slings.
OriginalThe Original Broad Street Bullies.
Bolting AwayYou noticed the bolt on her rifle? What about the bolts in her neck???
Alaska huntress?This photo can open up many snarky comments but I have to ask if any of them ended up in Alaska, maybe hunting from an aeroplane?
And then there were six....I think, like the haircut, it's a plea for help!
Homeland SecurityNow this is what we need for protection -- Attitude and Beauty!
The posseThere were soon to be no stray cats or dogs left in that neighborhood. Fewer kids, too, for that matter.
No faux furI'd venture a guess the fur is real, kinda makes me think girlfriend on the far right is the spoiled one.
Funny --There are no men in this photograph!
Types Seems to be four different rifles.
Rifle TypesOnly type I recognize is the two M1903 Springfield rifles - second and third from the left.
Man KillersThe two towards the right seem to be either Remington rolling blocks or some variant on the Sharps rifle. Including the '03 Springfields, we are talking a minimum of .30 caliber.
None of these gals seem to be toting the traditional .22 caliber rifles used in competition.
We're talking deer -- or, ulp! man-killing -- weaponry!
No Slings, but No Slouches EitherThe condition and variety of their rifles notwithstanding, it appears that the squad had a very good record. Drexel fielded noteworthy rifle teams all throught the '30's and '40's at least. I could not find this particular photo, but there were many articles, often with photos, about the girls' team at about this time. A selection follows.
Philadelphia Girls Becoming Marksmen
"The girl students of the Drexel Institute in Philadelphia have organized a rife team and, under the instruction of Lieut. J. P. Lyons, U.S.A., military instructor at the Institution, are rapidly becoming expert marksmen." Rock Valley Bee, 21 January 1921.
Good Rifle Teams at Drexel College
"Drexel Institute, of Philadelphia, had two wonderful rifle shooting teams the past indoor season - one of boys, the other of girls. So good was the girls' team that Capt. J. P. Lyons, the instructor, said: ‘I would like to match the girls against any boys' rifle team in the country.' When the instructor talks that way the girls must be counted on as real shots. They were. They didn't lose a match. Next season, it is more than likely that the girls will be eligible to try for the university team. Drexel won 16 of its 18 matches, lost 1 and tied 1 - with Yale. In five of its matches Drexel made perfect scores." Washington Post, 18 June 1922.
Fair Warning [photo caption]
"Girls' rifle team of Drexel Institute defeated a picked sharpshooter squad of Philadelphia police in a match." Hammond, Indiana, Times, 25 February 1926.
.22 x 6The rifles are all .22s, the Springfields are either M1922 or M2 .22 caliber training rifles. The single shots that one commenter thought was a rolling block are in fact Winchester .22 caliber "Winder" muskets built on the Winchester model 1885 action (the one on the far right is a "low wall" action. The fact that these are all .22s does little to take away from the level of marksmanship these women may have had and in fact all of the rifles are of extremely high quality.
They Had the Vote......so what else could they be coming for???
The Importance of ImpotenceApart from the spelling, my other quibble with Vernon's comment is that a well-aimed rifle shot is not the only thing about these women that may render a man impotent or feeble-minded.
TaggedThe girls #2 and #3 from the left each have a tag hanging from their coats - anyone know what that would be for?
Styles of the 20'sMy mother, married in 1922, hated the hair and clothes styles so much that she destroyed the one photo that was taken to commemorate the day. I can assure you she remained stylish to her dying day but not according to whatever everyone else was wearing. I regret that so many of us tend to follow the current trend instead of thinking for ourselves.
Permanent RecordHairstyles of the era really did nothing for them, did they.
M*A*S*HIs this where Klinger went through basic training?
Chicks with gunsHey, you know what they say. An armed society is a polite society. Betcha nobody whistled or cat-called at any girl around the Drexel campus.
Drexel Womens Rifle Team The Ladies ream was still going strong when I was at Drexel in the late 1950's/early 60's. The tape on the rifle in the middle is to improve the grip of the forestock, not to hold the rifle together. They were still using the M2's when I was there.
From an owner of two of these riflesFrom the left:
1 and 5. Obviously Springfields from the bolt throw (and barrel band sights), although my M22 MII does have a finger-grove stock.
2 and 3. Winchester Model 52 (early type with the folding ladder rear sight). Don't hassle me - I just took mine out of the gun safe to compare! The Springfields don't have the button clip release - it is a latch at the forward edge of the clip. Also, the chamber is WAY too short to be a .22 mod of an '06 action.
4 and 6. Both Winchester 1885 falling blocks - No. 6 a "Low Wall" Winder (all in .22 short). (Fortunately the lady's hose provide a good enough background to see the dropped rear of the action.) I have a 1885 "High Wall" in .22LR that is a musket stock, but I'd bet money this is a true Winder.
On the far right...... Bob Dylan?
Re: On the Far Right...I'm thinking Keith Richards.
Shot the coat myselfThe one on the far right must be their instructor or adviser. Not only is she a decade older than the other people in this picture, she looks mean enough to have shot and skinned the animals for her coat all by herself.
I suspect the tags on the coats might be an access pass to the shooting range (same idea as a ski lift ticket). You wouldn't want just anybody wandering into a place where there was live ammunition. You would need a way to tell at a glance, and from a distance, who belonged and who did not. They probably all have them, just those two are pinned where you can see them in the photo. The others may not have pinned theirs on yet for the day, or already taken them off for next time.
A rule of thumb. Or head.As a high school teacher in Colorado in the early 1950s, I was the faculty leader of the rifle club. A standard rule of safety was don't point your gun at your head! Drexel must have had a new team of shooters each year.
TapedActually, the tape would have been used to improve grip. Not to hold the rifle together. Note that the barrel band is intact.
Let's hear it for the girlsI'm surprised there's so much negativity about these young ladies. When I saw the one on the far right, my first thought was, "Leopard coat? There's a woman who's not afraid of putting some drama in her style." I'll bet she listened to jazz and could make her own bathtub gin.
Those old rifles...Only one of the "what rifles are they?" comments is accurate. To start with, all rifle competition has always been done using .22 caliber weapons. A very few national matches are held using higher caliber but .22 is the norm, believe me. The short stock rifles are obviously the special .22 version of the '03 Springfield, and the rolling/drop block "Martinis" are Winder muskets, based on the 1885 action. A friend of mine once owned a custom 1885 action that was chambered, believe it or not, for the old .218 Bee cartridge. The identification of the very early Winchester 52 is also interesting as the 52 is arguably defined as the best, at least American, target rifle ever made. The classic 52 story has a young guy asking an oldtimer what's so special about the 52. The old guy thinks for a few seconds then replies, "Son, there's .22s and there's 52s!"
IDing the rifles
[And speaking of sheer idiocy ... - Dave]
(The Gallery, D.C., Natl Photo, Sports)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/31951u.thumbnail.jpg "Point and Shoot: 1925")
- Cripple Creek Short Line: 1901
- Colorado circa 1901. "Cathedral Park near Clyde. Colorado Springs & Cripple Creek Short Line." A gray day in the Rockies. ... I believe this is now the upper Gold Camp Road between Colorado Springs and Cripple Creek. This shows about the same picture. Do a ... Posted by Dave - 07/20/2012 - 1:39pm -
- 1937 Beauty on a Dock
- ... part of an album that was purchased at a garage sale in Colorado Springs. Its contents give no clue as to its Colorado connection however it's believed there is a connection to a Ruth E. ... Posted by Joe - 07/03/2010 - 7:35pm -
- Traveleze: 1959
- ... for close viewing? I drove one of these pickups up in the Colorado Rockies with the Forest Service for two summers back in the mid '60s. ... Posted by Dave - 11/03/2012 - 5:57pm -
![This 35mm Kodachrome found in a thrift store is dated August 1959 and bears the notation "Jim, Bristlecone." The color-coordinated Chevrolet truck and Traveleze trailer are a nice late-Fifties touch. View full size.
Classic Forest ServiceClassic pickup. Classic trailer. Jim looks pretty classic, too, even classy for livin' in the woods all summer. All in minty green. I feel like I'm 4 years old all over again and staring out the open window of an unairconditioned '60 Chevy Bel Air on a two-lane road out West.
GreenIt appears Jim is member of the US Forest service according to the lettering on the truck. The Traveleze is probably his "ranger" cabin!
USFS truckThe Chevrolet half-ton pickup (called Apaches in 1958-59) belonged to the US Forest Service, part of the US Department of Agriculture. USFS trucks have been their own particular shade of green for many years, but I can't recall them ever having been two-toned. Would be interesting to learn whether the USFS commissioned matching travel trailers; can any Shorpyites confirm? (edit: Thank you DougR for the confirmation of two-toned USFS trucks!)
Unchanged after all these yearsForest Service Green
Found in thrift storeI this where I can expect all my photos to end up? and then find them here on Shorpy?
Where's Timmy?I almost expect to see Lassie bounding in to lead him to Timmy, who's gotten himself into another predicament.
I love this site.Where else could one stumble on something like this, nicely blown up for close viewing? I drove one of these pickups up in the Colorado Rockies with the Forest Service for two summers back in the mid '60s. Four on the floor (with a super-low stump-yanker first gear, good only for hauling heavy loads up 4% grades--most of the time you started in 2nd if you wanted to make progress), and yes, mine was two-tone as well. The rest of the stable included a '58 Ford F100, also two tone, and a couple of shiny new Dodge Ram V8s that were all-green, and two Jeeps, a Wagoneer and a CJ5. It was a joy and a privilege to motor around in such a beautiful mountain setting (much like in this shot) in such a cool vehicle. Thanks for the memory!
Civilization Nearby...Jim can't be too far off the beaten track. It looks like there is a telephone line connected to his trailer.
Not BristleconesThese are not Bristlecone Pines in the background. They look to be some kind of fir. And this does not look like the area where the pines grow above Bishop Calif. Although he could be lower on the mountain. Bristlecones also grow in Utah, Nevada as well as eastern California. There are also similar, but not as ancient, Foxtail pines. But these trees don't appear to be foxtails either. Has anyone been able to see what state the license plates are from? This could be a "Bristlecone camp" in some other area entirely.
[It's a U.S. Government license plate. - tterrace]
BristleconeAssuming "Bristlecone" refers to the Bristlecone pine forest east of Bishop, Calif high up in the mountains along the Nevada border. The oldest trees in the world.. so they say. Been there, seen that.
Side mirrors?Relative youngster here as I wasn't even born when this pickup was made. But I notice two side mirrors on the truck - one high, one low - both circular. Was this common back in the day?
Ask the man who owns one!Except for the gentleman pictured being in uniform and the truck having government plates and identification on the doors, this could be straight out of a period magazine ad for the truck. ...Or the trailer.
U.S. Forest Service TravelezeThe U.S. Forest service did have "Traveleze" trailers. I have photos of the exact same trailer with date code and number of units.
FS "Gray & Green"When I joined the Forest Service in 1978, we had a few of these old vehicles with the light gray cab roofs in the parking lot, which the old-timers called "green & grays".
This paint scheme came on all vehicles that the FS owned, but after the General Services Administration (GSA) took over all Government vehicle fleet management, all FS vehicles were the same color for a while. Yes, that weird minty "green like no other green" color.
By the 1980's the GSA provided rigs in all commercial colors, for cost savings.
(ShorpyBlog, Kodachromes, Cars, Trucks, Buses)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_traveleze_trailer_aug_1959.thumbnail.jpg "Traveleze: 1959")
- Florida Mammoth: 1890s
- ... 18x22 inch glass plate photographs are a mainstay among Colorado history buffs, particularly railfans. Some of his locations seem ... Library of Congress has the non-Western photos that the Colorado Historical Society didn't want. - Dave]
The Denver Public ... Posted by Dave - 07/19/2012 - 12:54pm -
![Florida in the 1890s. "Brown's Landing, Rice Creek." Note the enormous 18x22 inch "mammoth plate" view camera set up on the bow of the Princess. 8x10 inch glass negative by William Henry Jackson, whose photographs formed the basis of Detroit Publishing's holdings in the company's early days. View full size.
He hauled it Into the mountains, tooWilliam Henry Jackson's 18x22 inch glass plate photographs are a mainstay among Colorado history buffs, particularly railfans. Some of his locations seem accessible only to mountain goats. Unfortunately, most of these do not appear to be part of the LOC collection.
[The Library of Congress has the non-Western photos that the Colorado Historical Society didn't want. - Dave]
The Denver Public Library has some of them.
Where's Bogie and Katie? Some very pleasing visual effects on the boat. Notice the ox-yoke formed by the sculpted "Princess" plate over the wheelhouse window, much like the classic Packard grill. The curlicue shapes on each side of the bow (is there a proper name for them?) add a nice touch as well, as does the shaped wheelhouse roof---complete with eagle.
UGH!What did these poor guys use for mosquito repellent back then?
We honeymooned in Florida in May. Near a slow-moving body of water the mosquitoes were so big they could make one feel faint from loss of blood. The beaches - which had brisk, mosquito-repelling breezes - were wonderful!
Love TriangleAnd note the 3rd camera on the tripod over on the right, keeping a jealous eye on the other two cameras.
Third cameralocated to the right side of the picture on the landing. Much more conventional. One assumes it's like the one that took this shot.
No turn of the keyJust think what it took to get one of those steamboats under way. No "turn the key and cast off." And if the skipper / proprietor was lucky he had help to split, haul and stow the firewood.
Where's the princess? Note the running lights on that boat. They followed the rules of the road on that little river. I was in Florida in 1938-39. My mother particularly liked the flying cockroaches. The ones we were used to in New York couldn't do that.
(The Gallery, Boats & Bridges, DPC, Florida, W.H. Jackson)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_4a03508a.thumbnail.jpg "Florida Mammoth: 1890s")
- Grand Hotel: 1890s
- ... Is Shorpy perhaps vacationing in Florida?
[Colorado! Tonight, coming to you from Room 103 at the Courtyard by Marriott. - ... Posted by Dave - 05/26/2013 - 1:27pm -
![St. Augustine, Florida, circa 1890s. "The Ponce de Leon Hotel, rear view." With this post, Shorpy is entering vacation mode for a week, having packed his bindle and hopped a freight for the wide open spaces. While he's gone we'll try to make do with just a post or two every day. View full size.
House in the lower leftThe house in the lower left (36 Sevilla) is off the market -- it houses the Flagler Business Office.
DroolingI want that house in the lower left corner. Great picture - so much to look at!!
Quiet MorningThe photo must have been taken early in the morning, possibly on a Sunday. Except for the horse and buggy and one man, near the corner of the property, lower right. It was 1890, so no automobiles yet, however the street shows "emissions" from a major source of motive power at the time.
Spooky Guy in the road at the bottomHappens with a long exposure. Thanks for this one. It's stunning.
Have FunBon Voyage!
It's not the heat, it's the humidityIs Shorpy perhaps vacationing in Florida?
[Colorado! Tonight, coming to you from Room 103 at the Courtyard by Marriott. - Dave]
An amazing view!What strikes the most in this spectacular view is the total emptiness of Anastasia Island, the barrier island (now filled with subdivisions) off in the distance beyond the Matanzas River. You see clear out to the St. Augustine Lighthouse!
Please hurry back.....withdrawal has already set in!
Any chance of floor plansAny chance of floor plans for those fabulous buildings? It has so many interesting shapes, and the few rooms we've seen are so beautiful, there must be hidden treasures throughout the place.
Flagler CollegeSeems like a wonderful campus. The website has a bunch of pics and a bit of the history of the place.
Drooling...With the current Florida real estate market, who knows! You might be able to get a sweet deal!
[Busted by Google Street View! The 1890 glass negative had a piece of tape covering the second-floor windows, so I cut and pasted a single window to cover the hole. - Dave]
View Larger Map
SmokingWhy would a hotel need a giant smokestack (if indeed it belongs to the hotel?).
[Powerhouse, incinerator, boiler plant -- take your pick. - Dave]
It is grand.I would say that hotel was named appropriately. Does anyone know it it is still there?
[The former Ponce de Leon Hotel is now Flagler College. - Dave]
Hotel SmokestackHotel needed lots of hot water, usually supplied by a coal-fired boiler. The largest hot water application was probably the laundry, which typically operated around the clock. The kitchen also used a fair amount. Domestic hot water (distributed to taps in guest rooms) was also significant.
Not bad p-shoppingKinda makes me wonder what other bends in the fabric of time have gone unrecognized... ;)
ClarityWhat a fantastic picture - and are they huge flocks of birds in the sky? superb.
POVI have lived in St. Augustine off and on for the past 20 years, and graduated from Flagler College (the Ponce De Leon hotel, pictured, is the main campus hub). This image seems to have been taken from atop the Flagler Memorial Church - which was constructed in this time period to memorialize Henry Flagler's daughter. At the time, it's dome would have made it the tallest building in town. This pic is a great find, I've never seen one from this angle.The "field" in the lower right of the image is now the site of the college library.
(The Gallery, DPC, Florida, W.H. Jackson)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a03451a.thumbnail.jpg "Grand Hotel: 1890s")
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